PINKY COLE: The vegan space is very hard. All of the vegan restaurants around us are closing. So can you imagine being at war and everybody else is dropping. You’re in the sea, all by yourself and you’re like, ‘am I next?’ I feel like this is therapy and I like it. 

BOB SAFIAN: That’s Pinky Cole, founder of the vegan fast food chain, Slutty Vegan. She’s also the author of the books I Hope You Fail and Eat Plants, Bitch. I wanted to talk to Pinky because while others in the vegan food world struggle, Slutty Vegan continues to grow, opening new restaurants across the U.S. this year. She also recently gifted HBCU grads in Savannah almost $9 million in entrepreneurial training and tools. If you’re familiar with Pinky, you’ll know that her energy is infectious. She’s sharp, confident, and keeps it fun — which as it turns out, is a key element of her business’s success. I’m Bob Safian and this is Rapid Response. 

SAFIAN: I’m Bob Safian and I’m here with Pinky Cole Hayes, founder of Slutty Vegan.  It’s good to see you.

COLE: I’m so happy to be here. 

Copy LinkHow Slutty Vegan meets people where they are

SAFIAN: You’ve been a vegan since 2014, right? You ahve run a vegan restaurant chain. You’ve got a vegan book, but you’re not particularly militant about veganism.

COLE: Well, I am. It just depends on who’s asking. You know what’s so funny? So my husband is not vegan, okay? We’ve got three kids, and he has a cheesesteak restaurant concept, and then here I am — I’m on the Honorary Board of PETA. I’ve always been a vegetable lover. I grew up in a Rastafarian household. So I grew up eating rice and peas, legumes, beans, a lot of cabbage, a lot of greens. So like, this is the nature of who I am. So unlike somebody else, when they need a piece of meat and some rice and a protein, I can really just rock out with some cabbage and be good. 

SAFIAN: I’ve had the CEOs of Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat on this show. And when I talk to them, they focus on climate change and the ethics of eating meat and sometimes like how the product tastes, like is it as good or better than meat. You don’t generally tend to do any of that. You’ve even said that Slutty Vegan isn’t about the food. It’s about the experience. 

COLE: It is. You know, I wanted to create something that could meet people where they are, right? 70 percent of the people that come to Slutty Vegan are not vegan at all. They are true meat eaters, right? So if I can get them to shift their mindset and try this plant-based burger, even if it is vegan comfort food and they like it, then I can start to shift their mindset and say, “you know what? If it’s good at Slutty Vegan, it may be good at another restaurant that sells vegan options.”

So while I care about the planet, about the ecosystem, I really want people to feel like they can be safe when they come into the realms of my business. And when they try the food, they can say, “okay, this is the first step to the rest of my life.”

And veganism can be fun. Veganism can be cool. It can be sexy. It can be racy, and it can taste good. I want people to feel that way and be pleasantly surprised. That’s how you get people walking through the doors. That’s how you grow a hundred-million-dollar brand. And that’s how you get to change the narrative of what people think about this whole vegan movement that has been around for the test of time.  

SAFIAN: I learned in preparation for this discussion. I didn’t realize that Slutty Vegan burgers are Impossible burger patties. Is that right? For some reason, I thought you had your own plant-based burgers, but it’s more how you prepare them?

COLE: Yeah. So we actually use a couple of different proteins. We don’t just use Impossible. We use a couple of different proteins. And it’s interesting because when I first started, I did use Impossible solely. You got to remember, when I started in 2018, like, ‘Impossible. What is that?’ It’s this new big wave. Everybody’s talking about it. And I’m like, yes, we got the juice. Don’t nobody got what we got, right? But as we evolved, I realized there were so many other great businesses in the market. So we’ve created a space where people have options, and I’m excited about that, especially because Slutty Vegan serves as a springboard. 

When you think about the big boys in the vegan space, you got Slutty Vegan. You’ve got Veggie Grill. And you got Hart House. It’s not many of us, right? I wanted to make sure that Slutty Vegan was a reflection of all of the excellence that’s in the market. And that’s exactly what we’ve been doing. So we’ve got a whole ton of options when you come to the space. 

Copy LinkHow much does Slutty Vegan need to scale?

SAFIAN: So you’ve built this a hundred million dollar brand, which is a terrific achievement. You have 14 locations, I think a couple more coming this year. But you’re not like Chipotle, like you’re not everywhere. Maybe a better analogy is Shake Shack, because I know Shake Shack’s founder Danny Meyer is one of your investors. Is a dozen or so outlets enough, or is the plan for Slutty Vegan to be everywhere? Or does it not need to be?

COLE: I feel like this is therapy, and I like it. I don’t have to pay my therapist this week. So you know what’s interesting and I’m going to be totally transparent because that’s the only way that I can be, the vegan space is very hard. And it’s very hard because I am carving out a lane that virtually doesn’t exist. Like I am the blueprint. You understand what I’m saying? So like, when I have a pitfall, when I have a hiccup, when something goes wrong, I have to look at my own model because I’m setting the tone for the next class of vegan restaurants to come behind me. So I am like the guinea pig for so many things, and that’s not always fun.

So when you talk about scaling and growth, I have a lot of locations that do well. But then there’s like one or two, just like all businesses, you’re like, “Oh, that wasn’t a good idea.” Right? But it’s not that it’s not a great brand. But it’s location, what people are eating, how are they feeling psychologically? Are they tapped into the movement, what’s happening in the world? So before when I didn’t think about those things, I was just moving with my gut and going to find underserved spaces that didn’t have vegan food and putting vegan food in these spaces. Now I realize that I’ve got to think with my third eye. Now I’ve got to by way of data. This is a passion project for me, Bob. You understand what I’m saying? I didn’t start this to make money. I started this because I’m veganm and I wanted people to try the food that I like to eat.

So now as I grow and scale and open these locations, and now I’m a multimillion-dollar brand with multimillion-dollar bills, sometimes I’m getting sued, it depends on the day of the week, right? Now I’m like, ‘okay, I have to make data-driven decisions in order to scale this company,’ so that we can continue to sustain. We’ve already got the brand down pact. The brand is bigger than the business. Now we need to make sure that the business can stand on its own, especially because it’s standing up against the Burger Kings and the McDonald’s and all the other great brands that have been in business for so long. 

So is it hard? Absolutely. But am I up for a challenge? Yes, I’m from East Baltimore. So anytime a challenge comes my way, I’m going to make sure that I knock it down with my boots on, and we’re going to get it right and continue to grow.

Copy LinkThe pain behind needing to constantly scale

SAFIAN: You said a few months ago that the past year has been among the most stressful of your career, which is a pretty high bar given that your first restaurant in Harlem burnt down and you lost everything, that you opened the first Slutty Vegan restaurant in the pandemic. So what happened during the last year? What was so hard?

COLE: You know, it’s funny because the business has consistently continued to grow, right? And continues to grow. So this is not a matter of like, ‘Oh, business is not doing well.’ Business is booming. New opportunities, new engagements, new accomplishments. I made the Time 100 Next list last year, still on the covers of magazines, still getting lists. I’m a finalist for Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year. So like I’m popping, right? But then on the side, I have this business that — I’ve never scaled a multimillion-dollar brand before. I stepped away, and I had three kids. I had a baby in ‘21. I had a baby in ‘22. And I had a baby in ‘23. And then I got married all at the same time. So like I’m moving and shaking and doing all these things. And I stepped away from the business for a little bit. So I’m still in it. Still the mascot, still doing all these things. 

But then it was time. We all know this as founders. Sometimes you gotta go back to square one. And it is the most humbling thing as a founder ever has to do. And, you know, a lot of people say, “well, Pinky, you’re really honest about that.” But I feel the need, I have to be honest because a lot of founders don’t talk about this part — you stepping away from the business, and then coming back into the business to make sure that you continue to grow-out your legacy. And that’s what I’m doing in real-time. I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. It’s the hardest it’s ever been, but I got 2018 energy, and that’s the energy of when I first started my company, when I was in a shared kitchen, and I had 500 people standing out in line trying to get food, and I didn’t know what to do, and it was a frenzy, but it was a beautiful frenzy.

That is where I’m at right now, and, you know, somebody said something to me when I had to do some layoffs in the business last year. The person said, “if it were me, I would have never taken my hands off the wheel.” Right? And it hit me like a thorn in my spine, but I needed it because now that I’m back in it, back holding it and touching it, I’ll never take my hands off the wheel. And that was the greatest lesson that I’ve ever learned. So this is where we are. We’re opening locations. I’m working on my second cookbook. And it is the most beautiful, chaotic roller coaster ride that anybody could ever be on. 

SAFIAN: It’s complicated scaling though, right? Cause you can’t control everything in any single store the way maybe you could in the early days, right? So you’ve got to let go, but you also have to keep your finger on the pulse, and like figuring out how to do both of those things is what the trick in scaling is.  

COLE: You’ve got to keep going. Now I have kids looking up to me. I have entrepreneurs looking up to me. I have mothers looking up to me.  I have women looking up to me. I have Black people looking up to me. You understand what I’m saying? There’s so many people that are looking up to me and expecting me to win. I cannot let them down. So I wake up every single day ,and in my prayer, I’m like, “God, let today be a good day, please.” 

Copy LinkDoing things her own way, unapologetically

SAFIAN: Slutty Vegan is known for a lot of things: Brash marketing, for sure. Lines around the block. Cool partnerships. Celebrity endorsements. What do you want it to be known for? 

COLE: I want Slutty Vegan to be known for the idea that you can do whatever the fuck you want to do. And I mean that. When I came into this space, people told me that Slutty Vegan, the name was too racy, and it was too raunchy, and it was too provocative, and kids aren’t going to like it, and, like, nobody’s going to support it. And had I listened to them, I wouldn’t be the brand that I am today. My message to all entrepreneurs who are starting a business, if you want to be a disruptor, you’ve got to disrupt. I want people to read about this brand and how we took marketing to the next level, and it didn’t take a lot of bells and whistles. We were just authentically ourselves. We were real in our approach, and we fostered community, right? Like I’m really big on: the money that I get in the business, I pour it back in the community. I make sure that I lift as I climb, and I want people to remember this brand for that. 

This ain’t about sex. Slutty Vegan has nothing to do with sex. It’s just a way to draw you in. But I’m helping you to reimagine food, your thinking, your spirit, how to engage with people that don’t look like you. Like, I’m helping people to reimagine all of those things. So this is like the most beautiful form of silent protest that provides a sense of energy around food and love that money cannot buy. So when you think of me, and when you think of Slutty Vegan, and what I’ve created, I want you to remember that. And I want people to look at that as the blueprint, and model their businesses around that.  

SAFIAN: The New Yorker wrote a story about you a year ago that I went back and reread. And there was this phrase in there that said that like, ‘she’s not ideological. She’s first and foremost, a saleswoman.’ And it was almost like damning with faint praise, like there’s not some higher mission, like almost that you’re just a saleswoman. Do you lean into that, or do you take offense at that, or do you just move along?

COLE: You know, it’s interesting because I put my money where my mouth is. You know, I have a foundation called the Pinky Cole Foundation. I’ve paid the rent for local business owners, right? I’ve paid the tuition for 30 college students so that they can graduate from college. I’ve given out at least 800 LLCs to graduating class of seniors. I’ve given $8.9 million in resources, entrepreneurial resources to a graduating class of students. I could go on and on — opportunities, providing life insurance for Black men if they make $30,000 or less. 

So when you talk about being a salesman, you could call me what you want, but I do the work. You see burgers and fries, that’s just a vessel, right? But the vessel leads you to the engagement, the community, the entrepreneurship, helping to bridge the wealth gap, the education, the edification, the knowledge, the wisdom. All of that, you put that in a bowl and you stir and here you got me. And if you want to call it what you want, who cares? But guess what? I get the job done. 

SAFIAN: Pinky does not lack confidence. Sometimes I can’t tell if she’s overreaching or if she’s pumping herself up. But what I love about her story is that she’s doing things her own way, unapologetically. After the break, we’ll go deeper into the lessons of her unconventional journey, including why she cried when $25 million hit her bank account. We’ll be right back.

[AD BREAK]

Before the break, we heard Slutty Vegan’s Pinky Cole talk about how she built a $100 million brand in an untapped market. Now she talks about the responsibility she feels as a black woman entrepreneur, the critical lesson she learned from Shake Shack founder Danny Meyer, and why she cried when she got $25 million. Let’s jump back in.

Copy LinkInside Pinky Cole’s $9 million donation of entrepreneurial service

You recently gave the commencement address at Savannah State University, an HBCU, and you announced there that you were donating almost 9 million dollars in entrepreneurial services to graduates in partnership with Operation Hope. So for an effort like that, like where does that idea come from? How did that turn out that way? 

COLE: When you have a platform, it is your responsibility to use that platform. So I have a platform. I have an audience. So when the opportunity came to be the commencement speaker for Savannah State University, I’m like, ‘okay, what is it that I can do with my platform to leave these people better than I found them?’

And there were a couple of ideas. I was going to either donate a Slutty Vegan on campus, or partner with some really, really great people to provide some economic resources so that they could be the best versions of themselves. And while a Slutty Vegan would be good on campus, I’m like, ‘I want them to really get what they need so that they can go in the world and be great because I know what it feels like to go in a world and still trying to figure it out.’ So helping them to cut out the middleman and get right to what they need so that they can jumpstart the world, when a lot of people don’t even have that kind of opportunity is golden.

And I’m not going to stop there, right? I want to be recognized as a beacon of hope. When you see me, you know, Pinky’s got something for you, right? And it might not be things. It’s not always tangible. It’s energy, it’s wisdom, it’s knowledge. After this interview, you’re going to say, “Oh, this girl is crazy,” or like “I felt her spirit and her energy.” But I want people to leave better than I found them. 

SAFIAN: You’ve said that you’re sort of a celebrity by accident, and it can almost look from the outside like you’ve navigated all the challenges of being a Black woman in business smoothly, but it can’t have been that easy? 

COLE: It was easy to get here, and I’m gonna be honest. And my story is different from a lot of other people, right? To get here was easy. Now, to stay here is where the challenge comes in. I made a million dollars in the first three months. But how about making another 20 million and another 20 million after that and navigating getting sued and navigating being in a space, and I’m not just showing up as me anymore because I have an obligation as a woman, as a Black woman to show up in a way that is a reflection of the people who look like me, right? So getting here was easy. Staying here is a little bit difficult. Scaling, super popular, that’s famous, that like literally I flush the toilet wrong, and I’m on the news, right? So like making sure that you operate in excellence and being best in class in everything that you do is not easy, but it’s so worth it because it forces you to make sure that you show up as the best version of yourself.

Copy LinkWhat Pinky Cole has learned from Danny Meyer

SAFIAN: Your investor, Danny Meyer has been on this show a couple of times — Shake Shack founder. What’s been valuable to you? I mean, he talks that he’s learned stuff from you. 

COLE: Danny is a cool guy, man. I can remember when I first — I’m going to be honest. When I first met Danny, I wanted the cover of Forbes so bad, right? So I did the $25 million raise, the company valuation was a hundred million dollars. I’m like, “Oh yeah, I know I’m getting the cover of Forbes.” I was ready for it. Like it is mine. I’m claiming it. I’m not taking no for an answer. And, the editor, shoutout to Diane at the time, she was just like, “unfortunately, we’re just not in a position to give you cover.” And I’m like, “Me?! You don’t want to give me the cover?” So I went on a rant, and I was unhappy about it. And it was a connection that Danny made for me. So it got back to Danny, and then obviously I felt like I had to sit in front of my dad, right? And he didn’t yell at me, and he wasn’t happy, or he wasn’t mad, but the tone was very calm, and it was very peaceful. And I felt sick for like the next two days because I felt like I’d let him down. And what that showed me is, there is a different level of respect that I have for this man. I realized that the respect that I have for somebody that didn’t raise his voice, he wasn’t irate. He was very calm. And he gave me a sense of wisdom that I never got from anybody else. It was a silent wisdom. So it changed my mindset on how I interact with people when I don’t get things that I want. And that probably was the biggest lesson that I learned in my life. 

Copy LinkWhy Pinky Cole gave away equity in Slutty Vegan

SAFIAN: I heard that you cried when you gave up equity in Slutty Vegan. Now, were these tears of joy? Were they sadness? What was that about? What happened in that moment?

COLE: Well, I was also pregnant, so I could have been very hormonal at the time. However, you know, I come from a single-parent household. My father did 22 years in prison. Never in my wildest dreams could I ever imagine creating a brand of this magnitude, let alone people believing in my dream enough to want to give me that kind of money to be able to grow my brand.

Cause once upon a time, it’s me, it’s mine, it’s mine. I created it. I wake up every day, I run this business. But I had to realize: that 10 percent of a watermelon is greater than a hundred percent of a grape. And if I want to be great in the world, I’ve got to go stronger together. So when the money hit my bank account, I’ll tell you the truth. 25 million hit my account, and I just started sobbing and you don’t know how you’re going to feel when that happens. I think that was like a life-changing moment for me because I’ve never been in that situation before. Who would have thought that you’d be crying over getting money? But as a founder, figuring it out, I didn’t know. And I’m still navigating. I don’t know everything about business, right? Like, if you would have asked me this five years ago, I’d have been like, equity what? Safe notes what? What do you do with that? But now, it’s like school. I’ve been able to grow in business. And I’ve learned a lot of things, and I’m glad I’m on the other side because I get to be a testimony to a lot of other entrepreneurs who are going through the same thing as me.

Copy LinkWhat’s at stake for Pinky Cole at this moment?

SAFIAN: So right now, in this moment for you, like what’s at stake? 

COLE: What’s at stake? I don’t want to be a Netflix documentary. Not for the wrong reasons, anyway. You know, listen, let me tell you, I gotta be honest. All of the restaurants, vegan restaurants around us are closing. So can you imagine being at war, and everybody else is dropping? You’re in the sea all by yourself, and you’re like, okay, so like, ‘am I next?’ Like, ‘what I gotta do to make sure that I’m safe?’ So every day is uncertain. We still do a lot of business, but the biggest businesses that do a lot of business file for bankruptcy, close doors. So, the state of the vegan movement is unpredictable. 

So what’s at stake is that I will not lose. I will not lose. I will continue to grow. I will continue to thrive. I will continue to create opportunities for other people. And that’s a big responsibility, but you know, they say heavy is the head that wears the crown. And I’m up for the challenge. I’m up for the test. We’re going to get it done.

SAFIAN: Well, thank you, Pinky. Thanks for doing this.

COLE: Thank you so much. 

SAFIAN: I don’t know if Slutty Vegan is going to become the next Shake Shack. But I do feel like listening to Pinky offers a window into a different approach to business. We all reflect our own experiences, and in Pinky’s case, she’s unapologetically embraced boisterous energy that others might consider risky. Yet it is precisely that spirit that has fueled her success. 

On the next Rapid Response, we’ll be digging into a different kind of spirit, by unlocking the modern lessons of legendary ocean explorer Jaques Cousteau.  I hope you’ll join us. I’m Bob Safian. Thanks for listening.