PINKY COLE: I was depressed, that felt worse than death. I can’t sleep. I can barely eat. I don’t want to see my kids all the time because facing them and just facing myself was tough to do. And I’m transparent enough to speak on this and most founders probably wouldn’t but this is what happens behind the veil. Nobody talks about the nights when you got to figure out how to pay your payroll, how you got to make sure that insurance gets paid and you got to pay your rent and all of those things. And I want people to know that as beautiful as it is, you got to know how to navigate through the challenges. People want to see the story of resilience.

BOB SAFIAN: That’s Pinky Cole, founder of the plant-based restaurant chain Slutty Vegan. Pinky has been a guest on this show a couple of times but since her last visit, her business has undergone a dramatic crisis, insolvency, board dissolution, a change of control. In this episode for the first time publicly, Pinky takes us through the details of this brutal stretch of time during which she lost the company and then won it back, and also survived a harrowing highway collision. She’s candid about her business mistakes, her emotional journey, and the lessons that she hopes others can take from her experience. It’s a roller coaster ride so let’s get to it. I’m Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.

[THEME MUSIC]

I’m Bob Safian. I’m here with Pinky Cole, founder of plant-based restaurant chain, Slutty Vegan. Pinky, it’s great to see you again.

COLE: Likewise. I’m just so happy to be here again, talking to you again.

Inside Slutty Vegan’s cashflow crisis

SAFIAN: Yeah, we last spoke on stage at the Master of Scale Summit in October of 2024 last year. And things seemed to be humming, you had new stores, there were some high-profile collaborations, we talked about investors including Shake Shack founder, Danny Meyer, a great mentor to have. And then everything turned a little bit. Take us back to last fall, how you were feeling about the business, and what unfolded as the year finished out.

COLE: I want to preface this conversation as a cautionary tale for founders. When I talk about my journey and the things that I’ve been through, I have seen a mass amount of success. I have gotten the title of every single magazine you could imagine, I’ve graced all the lists, I’ve gotten all of the things. But what I also realized is, that didn’t come without challenges. And just like all things go up, some things do go down.

And when I met with you, Bob, I was in the middle of one of the most powerful yet crunching seasons of my life. Here it is, I’m still making double-digit millions, doing very well as an organization by way of revenue but operationally I was not sound. And because I was not sound, the ship was sinking. It started off with a slow sink and then eventually that ship went all the way under. And there’s no way to save a ship that got 10 holes in it. No matter how many buckets you try to get to push the water out, whatever effort that you try to do, there was no way to save it. I went from having challenges with cashflow. You know how it goes, Bob, if the cashflow doesn’t make sense, then the business can’t make sense. And all of these things happen really, really fast.

Some people think that it’s like a slow roll. No, it’s just like one day you’re good and the next day you’re not. And after I did the taping with you, it got real. And real as in I had to file for an assignment for the benefit of creditors. And for the people who are listening to this, if you don’t know what that is, that is like bankruptcy’s fourth cousin far removed. It is an insolvency proceeding that happens outside of court when a company or organization, the revenue doesn’t speak to the debt that it has, my debt was above the revenue. Here I am overall I got about $20 million in debt, I’m burning $100,000 every single week. That is taxing on any entrepreneur, especially when you have a board that at this point they’re like, “Okay, how did we get here? What happened?”

And when I look back over everything, I wasn’t in the company day to day. I’m the mascot, I’m the thought leader, I’m doing all these things, put people in position. We did a lot of great things collectively as a organization, but there was some learning curves there. And what I’ve learned from this experience is that talent is the root of all evil or is the foundation for your success. You want to have a really good organization? You got to have really good talent. And I’m not just talking about people that look good on a resume. I’m talking about people who can, one, roll with the punches, who are great problem solvers, who can look at an organization and identify ways in which to make it better. It’s not enough just to say that you worked at a company that was successful. No, you got to come in this one and make sure that this one is successful. A lot of learnings there to say the least.

SAFIAN: Yeah. I want to ask you a couple of questions about that turn that happened, you mentioned losing $100,000 a week. Now you could say, “Well, that’s the plan. We’re going to invest $5 million a year to build a brand.” That it’s part of what the strategy is. It doesn’t sound like that’s where the losses were coming from. Was there a single primary business problem, or was it like a group of things?

COLE: It was a group of things. The model has always been proven, we have a good business model. We have a cult following, people love the brand. That wasn’t what it was. What happened is, in the middle of the pandemic is when we got our rise. Could you imagine we raised $25 million and then inflation is through the roof? What would cost $600,000 to open up a Slutty Vegan cost almost $1 million dollars to open up a Slutty Vegan. We opened up 14, we were very ambitious with our goals. On the surface, the business, very buttoned up, very organized. But the reality of it is we were a bit above our britches. Our C-suite was super expensive. We were paying top dollar for construction and opening up locations. We had one location in particular where it took us four months beyond the completion date to get opened because of permitting, obviously that cost money. All of the things just came together and it became a domino effect.

I had three babies in three years. I had a baby in ’21, I had a baby in ’22, and a baby in ’23. And I got married and I’m doing all of these things. And when I started this company, I never coined myself as an operator. I’m not a restaurant operator, I’ll tell the truth. But this has always been a passion project for me so what I do very well is I market my business very well. I know how to connect the dots and I can bring people together so I brought in people who I thought can manage the operations. And did they do good work? Sure. I’m a professional, sure. But at the end of the day, the level of acumen that we need for the momentum that we have, I needed somebody else. But I want to say that I needed that to happen at the moment in time in which it happened because it gave me the opportunity to, one, clear my cap table, two, clear the debt, and then it gave me an opportunity to buy my company back and rewrite my story.

The one thing about entrepreneurship is nobody tells you that it has to be a straight line, you’re going to get some curves, there’s going to be some speed bumps, you’re going to flip over a couple of times. But as long as you keep driving, that is where you get the juice. And I’ve been thirsty for this new juice of 2.0 in Slutty Vegan and that’s bringing in a new president, bringing in a new accounting firm, bringing in a new HR team, even down to the damn assistant, everything new. And I wanted to be able to rewrite the story in a way where not only just, I could feel good about myself aspirationally, but founders around the world can look at my story and know what to do and know what not to do because Pinky went through it. I look at myself now as the sacrificial lamb, you know what I mean?

Pinky Cole on stepping away from Slutty Vegan

SAFIAN: But it wasn’t clear that you were going to end up where you are today, right? In February, you had to give up your stake in the business, your role in the business. And then you eventually came back in, but that first move back in February, that must’ve been tough.

COLE: I was depressed, that felt worse than death, Bob. I don’t know if you have ever had and lost a company, but I don’t wish this on my worst enemy. Even the person that I hate the most, I wouldn’t wish this on them. Because let me tell you what happens when you are in the process of grieving a business, you’re grieving a business that ain’t totally dead. Can you imagine? You see all this money, thousands of dollars coming in every week, but then you can’t afford to pay your bills. It just doesn’t make sense. My mental health has been compromised. I can’t sleep. I can barely eat. I don’t want to see my kids all the time because facing them and just facing myself was tough to do. And then also, I’m still leading an organization and leading a team. And taken from my personal pot, from my home life, to be able to afford and fund the business obviously put a strain on my family, on my marriage, everything.

And I’m transparent enough to speak on this and most founders probably wouldn’t but this is what happens behind the veil. Nobody talks about the nights when you got to figure out how to pay your payroll, how you got to make sure that insurance gets paid and you got to pay your rent and all of those things. And I want people to know that as beautiful as it is, you got to know how to navigate through the challenges. I felt like people turned their back on me as a founder, I felt like the weight of the world was on my shoulder and I didn’t have many people to lean on, but it was in those moments that I got the most clarity. When I went through the ABC, I didn’t own a company for 43 days, Bob. I counted.

SAFIAN: Right. You gave it away or whatever, had to give it away. And during that period, are you thinking you’re going to come back too? Or were you thinking there’s a new stage for me, I don’t know what it’s going to be?

COLE: I opened up Voagies, vegan hoagies, and this is the vegan Jersey Mikes. And I’m like, “Okay, listen. One thing about me is you may take it all from me, but you can’t take this. Okay?” I know my mouthpiece going to give me another one, I know I’m going to do another home run. And Voagies was something that I was working on for almost six years. When I decided to move with Voagies, I’m like, “Hey, whatever happens, I’m going to just roll with the punches. I’m going to start this new concept.”

SAFIAN: Someone else is running Slutty Vegan and you are now running this new brand, Voagies. And in some ways you’re competing with your old self.

COLE: Yes, right? A liquidation company came in, took all the debt, took all the assets, everybody resigned from the board, and then I was no longer the CEO, but that is just a part of the resolution process. Nobody kicked me out, it didn’t happen that way, but that’s a part of the process. I basically broke up with my old self. The thing that I’d been working on for seven years and growing this company was no longer mine. But I’ll tell you this, I was still going to the store, I was still making sure that everything was okay. It was very difficult to do. It’s almost like loving somebody that doesn’t love you back.

SAFIAN: And during this time… Obviously, you tend to live your life quite publicly. During this time, you weren’t necessarily being as loud about this as…

COLE: I disappeared. I disappeared. You know why? To be honest, Bob, I didn’t want to be a victim. I’ve never portrayed myself as a victim. I’m looked at as this powerful woman entrepreneur who was a mom who can do all things, can fight through challenges. I didn’t want nobody to feel sorry for me. And that’s a little bit of pride and ego because I know that if I would’ve went public about it, I would’ve gotten help. But I didn’t want people to feel sorry for me because everybody is going through challenges. And I wanted to get through this so that when I finally become brave enough to tell the story, which I’m happy that I can share the story now, there’s somebody that is going to be watching this podcast, Bob, and they’re going to feel like they’re going to keep going because they know what Pinky did. And they know like, “I know it’s hard but Pinky got through it so I know I can get through it too.” Was it a challenging time in my life? Absolutely. I even got hit by a mattress during those 43 days.

Why Pinky Cole bought back Slutty Vegan

SAFIAN: Yeah. Well, I was going to ask you about this. Because you end up buying the business back in April but there was… Can you tell me the story? Because I heard about this, that you were in a car accident that got you moving in a different direction.

COLE: Listen, let me tell you, God has a way of working. I was on my way home, this was during a period that I didn’t own a company. I just found out that they were about to open up the bid for me to purchase the company back. I was driving on the highway, and I was just thinking about my life. And I don’t know if you ever had one of those car rides, Bob, but I was just thinking like, “Okay, what am I going to do? What is the world going to say?” I’m thinking about all these things. The next thing I know, I look up and a king-sized mattress hits me head-on on the middle of the highway, 70 miles an hour, and my whole life flashed before my eyes.

And in that moment, obviously I wasn’t thinking like, “Oh my goodness, God, what are you trying to tell me?” But it was one of them things where I was just like, “Wow, God is telling me to rest.” I’ve been running for the last almost 10 years with no breaks, with no vacations. I ain’t been chilling, I’ve been grinding. I’ve been in this hustle mode, and I’m like, “This is the time where I need to step back and just strategize. What is my next play? The real play, not the temporary play. What is the next play for me?” And I went to Jamaica, and I was in Jamaica for about five days, and I turned my phone off, and I didn’t talk to anybody, and all I did was sleep and relax. And when I got back, I put the bid in to buy the company back.

And I was nervous because there were two bids, two other bids, they wanted assets. And I was the third bid. And I put the bid in and I surrendered. And I said, “You know what? Whatever is going to happen is going to happen and it is well with my spirit. And Voagies is going to be successful, one day I’ll be able to tell the story of Slutty Vegan. And it will be successful but this is not the end.” And then I got the call saying that I won the bid and I purchased my company back. And at that moment, it has been like I’ve been off to the races.

Let me tell you something, Bob. Since I bought my company back, I opened up a location in Florida, I opened up a location… That Voagies location in Atlanta, and I pretty much started over. And I’m so happy that I did… I changed menu items, I got super lean in the company. And what’s different now is that I’m at the helm, I’m running my company again. I’m actually in it and I’m seeing day to day and I’m rubbing shoulders with the people. And yes, does it feel like I took some steps back? Sure, why not? But the reality of it is I’m still here, the business is still booming, people still love my brand even despite… That’s why I said my Slutty Vegan is so bulletproof because even despite everything that has happened to me publicly, which I volunteered, people still stand in line for me and they still support the brand.

SAFIAN: Pinky is a fighter. Despite all the obstacles she’s had to navigate, she is committed, the truest of true believers. But has her confidence been shaken at all? Are her ambitions for Slutty Vegan more tempered? And how will Slutty Vegan 2.0 mesh with her new Voagies brand? We’ll talk about that and more after the break. Stay with us.

[AD BREAK]

Before the break, Slutty Vegan’s Pinky Cole took us through a disastrous turn of events for her business and how she managed to regain control. Now, she talks about rebuilding not just financial momentum but her own internal equilibrium. She shares tough lessons about ambition, control, panic, and resilience. Let’s jump back in.

I’m curious, when you mentioned that the mattress hitting you on the highway, the car accident. I’ve been in accidents myself and what I feel like is I don’t have control. When it happens, it’s just like the world is happening to you. But for us as business people, we’re so much, act and feel like we’re in control, we can make this happen. How do you balance that, about “I can fix this,” that’s what an entrepreneur does, versus “the world is the world,” nothing I can do?

COLE: You know my thought process prior to is, I can fix this, I can fix this when I was in the heart of drowning. But the reality of it is when you think bigger picture, we are not in control, you just got to be okay sitting in the back while God is in the driver’s seat or whoever you believe in. Sometimes it may look like losing your business in real time but when you walk out of that fire, you realize that you learned so much along the way.

SAFIAN: When you bought back the business, how much of that decision was a financial decision, a business opportunity versus a life choice?

COLE: It was a life choice, it had nothing to do with money. This is personal for me and I’m like, “There ain’t no way I’m about to let this company die, and I make it millions.” People dream to make millions in their company, people dream for that. I’m like, “I already done did the hard part. I already got the audience. I already make the money. It’s just my debt, that’s the problem.” And I wasn’t willing to let that die, so it was beyond the money and making money. It was more so like, “This is my legacy, and I created Slutty Vegan to be a billion dollar brand.” And the billion may not come in the form of paper currency, it’s the billion dollar ideas that are born and bred from this, it’s the billionaires that are born from just hearing my story. You know what I’m saying?

I knew that at this point it is bigger than me. And I said, “You know what? Maybe Slutty Vegan was just a vessel, so that I could be able to tap in with other people to show them how to and how not to do business.” And I don’t know everything about business but what I do know is I got something special and I’m not willing to let that die.

SAFIAN: You bought the company back under the name Ain’t Nobody Coming to See You, Otis. That’s about as creative a name for a business as I’ve seen. Where did that come from? Why that name?

COLE: From The Temptations. If you ever seen a movie where Eddie Kane says this line right before they go on like, “Ain’t nobody coming to see you, Otis. They came to see me. I’m the show.” I wanted to send a strong message that the people come to Slutty Vegan because they love me, simply put. They love how I move, how I operate. They love my candor, they love my honesty, they love the visibility, they love the organic-ness that I provide to the world. They love that. And I knew that this was an opportunity to reclaim what was mine. And to send a strong message to any naysayers or any doubters that the reason why Slutty Vegan has been successful in the first place is because they support and they love me.

SAFIAN: When we talked last time, we talked about this a little bit, about how the attention and the loyalty between you and your business is linked. And at the time you said it was both a blessing and a curse. And I wasn’t sure whether you were going to say, “Slutty Vegan 2.0, I’m pulling back. It’s not going to be as much about me.” It sounds like more, you’re doubling down, like, “No. No, this has got to be connected.” In some ways even more.

COLE: I am doubling down because I realize people want to see the story of resilience. We got enough going on in the world. Just take a look at the news, the economy is shit. We’re trying to figure life out, everybody is. I don’t care how much money you make, we’re all trying to figure it out in real time and people want to hold on to some sort of hope. And that level of hope is coming from me. And I want now to be on display to be able to motivate and inspire and encourage in real time, and that means that I’m taking you on a journey of how I get to do this.

Lessons Pinky Cole is bringing into Slutty Vegan 2.0

SAFIAN: And your ambition for Slutty Vegan, going through what you’ve gone through, you could see someone being maybe more restrained. But it sounds like your ambition for Slutty Vegan, well, is it different than it used to be or is it the same? I know you still want to be a billion-dollar brand but is it the same or different?

COLE: It’s the same in the sense that I’m here to help people to reimagine food, what’s different now is the intention is different. The intention is to show that small businesses can thrive and they can thrive without a big engine. Small businesses can win as long as you educate yourself and learn what you need to learn in your business, that’s making sure that operationally you are sound. I didn’t really know my business. Does that make sense? I knew at surface level but if you would’ve asked me EBITDA and all of that stuff, I’d be like, “Okay, call the president. Call somebody.” You know what I’m saying? Now, I’m more intentional about making sure that I know my business.

What happens oftentimes, and Bob, I think you know this, as founders start a business, we get fatigued, we bring people in the business so that we don’t have to do all the dirty work anymore. And then oftentimes, we take our hands off the wheel and that is where we go wrong. Not that we don’t love our company but we take our hand off because we wanted to get some sleep. We’ve been running this company, we’re tired, and we put somebody in position. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t but at the end of the day, they’re not knocking on their door, they come back to you. And that’s what happened to me. And big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big lesson learned, it’s all a part of the game and there’s art in the game.

SAFIAN: And when you think about Slutty Vegan 2.0 at this point, how much of your energy is about, “Okay, I want to broaden and make the business bigger and expand the menu,” versus like, “Let’s just keep the cash flow steady.”

COLE: I’m keeping the cash flow steady right now, that is the most important to me. It’s keeping the cash flow steady, making sure that the lights stay on, making sure that my employees get paid, making sure that we are rebuilding culture in real time. And that takes time, that’s not an overnight process. While I do want to run fast, I don’t want to run fast and fall. I’m still just as big of a risk-taker, but I’m also a little bit more mindful because of what I just got out of. I got PTSD, to be honest. It was difficult so I want to make sure that everything that I do makes sense and that I’m moving in the direction where we’re moving more efficiently and working smarter and not harder.

Every day I’m streamlined and, how can I cut costs? That is the name of the game. I’m cutting costs without cutting the customer experience, and I think that’s important for me right now. And then when I get to a space where I feel comfortable, then we about to go off and accelerate. But right now, it’s just about making sure that the business sustains and we lock in with the systems and the operations. Because if I didn’t learn anything else in business, I realized that you can be popular all day long, you can make millions all day long. But if you don’t have a zip-tight operation, you have nothing. You have nothing. That is the biggest thing that I learned so operations comes first and everything else falls behind that.

SAFIAN: Is Voagies and Slutty Vegan, is it one business now or they remain two different businesses?

COLE: It’s two different… You ask good questions. It’s two different businesses right now but eventually, Slutty Vegan will acquire Voagies so we treat it as two separate entities for now, which both have very different strategies of growth. What I love about Voagies is Voagies can be everywhere. We call people Sluts at Slutty Vegan, you can’t put that in a school. But Voagies can be in a school, it could be in a stadium, it could be everywhere. They don’t have anything like this on the vegan side for subs except for Voagies, and I’m excited about what Voagies will do.

SAFIAN: Well, I want to thank you for coming back to talk with us again and sharing what’s been a tough time, a tough time for you. 40 whatever-some days between, I know you went to Jamaica and you had some rest, but that’s not a whole lot of time to rest. Is there something different that you do about the way you work, you run yourself so that maybe you don’t get to that burned down place again?

COLE: I don’t worry anymore. When I tell you I’ve been to hell and back, you don’t even know the half. And I’m like, “If it ain’t as bad as what I just got out of, it ain’t bad at all. And everything could be modified and everything could be fixed.” I have such a positive outlook on where we are. Even if people are panicking around me, I’m in this state of like, “Hey, it’s not the hell that I just got up. We are all right.” You know what I mean? 

And I’m happy about that. There’s a certain level of peace and tranquility that I have there and I’m sure that you feel the energy through the phone. You could tell when… You can read bullshit, I’m sure. But there’s a piece that I have that like, “Hey, if the walls are crumbling down, I’m still here. Let me go get some popcorn.” I don’t stress this time around about what’s happening in business because whatever is going to happen will happen.

SAFIAN: Well, I can’t wait to have this conversation again in a few months and see what happens next. Pinky, talking with you is always an adventure. Maybe not exactly the adventure you most wanted to talk about right now but good lessons for all of us to hear and learn.

COLE: Yes. Well, I appreciate it. And again, for the people who are watching this that are entrepreneurs, just know that it is going to be an ebb and flow. But if you love the game, you’ll love more the art of the game and I’m playing with the art.

SAFIAN: Well, Pinky, thanks again for doing this. We really appreciate it.

Pinky’s spirit is just incredible. After losing the company she built, financial setbacks, emotional trauma, things that would impact anyone’s sense of self, Pinky has maintained her spark. If anything, she’s got a renewed sense of resilience and purpose. 

Now, there’s a tendency in business storytelling to glamorize the comeback, to make it neat and triumphant. But I want to double click on Pinky’s reminder that the road back is messy and painful and uncertain. It takes courage to step back into the fray but that’s what we all need to do in the face of inevitable challenges in business, in life. We need to keep betting on ourselves to push boundaries, and also to be honest about our mistakes and limitations. To make a difference and to generate progress, it takes more than optimism, it takes character. I’m Bob Safian. Thanks for listening.